Podcasts
Explore podcasts from other ministries featuring members of the VitalChurch team, sharing insights on church leadership, renewal, and navigating change.
Appearing on: The Church renewal Podcast
Dave Miles
What if the “problem person” isn’t the problem at all? We sit down with Dr. Dave Miles of Vital Church to unpack how Family Systems Theory reveals the hidden dynamics that keep churches anxious, reactive, and stuck—and how non‑anxious leadership creates room for real change. Dave traces a formative interim pastorate that ended in a blowup, the Friedman books that reframed his perspective, and the moment he realized visible conflicts are often symptoms of deeper patterns layered into a church’s history.
We start by naming a familiar pattern: a prideful, inward culture that prizes correctness over love and leaves leaders burned out. Dave shares field-tested insights on reading anxiety in the room, refusing to overfunction, and creating space for real responsibility. We dig into governance where dysfunction often hides—unclear roles, strong personalities that shut down dissent, and “safe” hires who keep systems stuck. You’ll hear practical counsel on accepting resignations without drama, re-vetting boards, and choosing self-differentiated, grace-filled leaders who can hold ground without hostility.
Appearing on: The church Renewal Podcast
Dan Werthman
Ever wondered why the same church conflict keeps showing up with different names? We sit down with intentional interim pastor and certified Christian conciliator Dan Werthman to unpack how family systems theory, shame awareness, and differentiation can turn anxious reactivity into steady, compassionate leadership.
Dan’s path—from Air Force JAG and civil litigation to the pulpit and peacemaking—gives him a rare lens on church transitions. He explains why process matters more than content, how triggers formed in our families of origin hijack ministry moments, and why pastors must do their own work before trying to “fix” a congregation. We explore practical tools: mapping genograms to see multigenerational patterns, refusing triangles, slowing urgency, and using calm, clear statements that lower anxiety without losing conviction.
Appearing on: the Essential Church podcast
Garry Abbott
In this episode, Andrew sits down with Gary Abbot and Laurel Schumacher of VitalChurch Ministry to explore what it looks like for churches to navigate seasons of crisis with clarity, purpose, and hope. Drawing from their extensive experience working with congregations across the country, Garry and Laurel share practical insights on leading through conflict, rebuilding trust, and creating a healthy path forward.
Together, they discuss common challenges churches face during times of transition, the role of strong leadership and intentional communication, and how congregations can emerge not just stable—but renewed and stronger than before. Whether your church is currently in crisis or simply seeking to be better prepared for the future, this conversation offers valuable guidance and encouragement.
Appearing on: The church Renewal Podcast
Dave Miles
Dr. Dave Miles has spent 31 years walking into church buildings where hope is dwindling, relationships are fractured, and the future seems uncertain. As founder of VitalChurch Ministry he's dedicated his career to being a spiritual first responder for congregations in crisis.
What makes Dave's perspective particularly valuable is his observation of how American Christianity has transformed over three decades. When he began his work in the early 1990s, the United States was experiencing what he calls "the last gasps of Christendom"—a time when cultural Christianity still provided enough framework that evangelism could happen relatively quickly. Today's landscape requires churches to think like missionaries in a foreign land, prepared for "hours and hours of conversation" with people who lack basic Christian understanding.
The most profound challenge Dave encounters isn't just helping churches solve immediate leadership or structural problems. It's addressing a fundamental identity crisis where believers have never embraced their missionary calling as "ambassadors for Christ." His work involves not just diagnostic intervention but reorienting entire congregations toward this biblical identity that feels surprisingly new to many
